LuniqueKero

I'm really not a fan of the new way to edit curves in 4.0, maybe it's just because I'm not used to it but V3 is just so ridiculously simple and quick compared to 4.0.

Is there a way to have the old editor in 4.0?
LuniqueKero
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warmanw

Just dont use Graph View right away, you have same default presets available. Start with those and step by step you will get yourself involved into curves. It is really powerful and worth trying to grasp fully.
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warmanw

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Sinisa

Hey @LuniqueKero,

I know that learning a full-scale curve editor can be scary and confusing. Trust me, I learned how to animate in 3D after 6 years of only animating with paper and pencil. Now, I can't animate as well as I would want to without a proper curve editor. Having a graph where you can only tweak interpolation between two keys is just not good enough.

I would recommend you try simple exercises and then build up to more complex animations. Check the animation with Spine videos where you have an exercise for every video plus the project files so you can analyze the Graph yourself. All the exercises were passed down to me by amazing animators from studios like Disney, Pixar, Sony, Weta, etc. so they are really worth your time. Check it out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEXq8TCfQ9I&t=730s this is the first one, there are more and they will keep coming.

If you need any tips just write here on the forum I would be glad to answer.
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Sinisa

Sinisa
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kirkegor

I was waiting for the appearance of full-fledged curves, but using them turned out to be worse. If earlier I could select all bones keys and build the desired curve for all, now I need to separately for each bone!
How do I select all keys and make them a custom curve?
before http://prntscr.com/1nz9fba
now http://prntscr.com/1nz86wk

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before I could copy the curve from some keys and paste in others
kirkegor
  • Postovi: 5

Nick

@kirkegor
Wow. Your 2nd screenshot really give me anxiety. I didn't try the 4.0 version yet. Still using 3.8.99.
Is the old graph completely gone? If I remember it right, they mention long ago that the old graph will stay and user could choose which one to use. Is it no longer the case?
Nick
  • Postovi: 297

kirkegor

@Nick I only today began use 4.0 and I can't find old Graph.
For example, I want make same interpolation between 2 keys for many bones and I can't do that!!!
http://prntscr.com/1o0cqwo
And I can't use preset for curves now, as it was before. I can use only standard curves http://prntscr.com/1o0eufq

It so sad, because I waited so long for curves. I use curve editor in Maya, After Effects and I can edit curves for all selected keys, but not in spine((((

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I understand clearly that I cannot specify the axis relative to which to transform the rectangle?
Oh, so sad(((
curves.gif

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I want do like that!! But I can't(((
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kirkegor
  • Postovi: 5

Søren

Sorry, but the old graph will not be making a return, and honestly, it shouldn't. The new graph is far more powerful and allows you to do things that were previously not possible.

With that said, we're still improving on the new graph. More features will be added over time. Specifying the "origin" of your scaling is definitely something we can add in time.
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Søren

Shiu
  • Postovi: 2447

Harald

In the meantime, the "Store" functionality might help to first store your curve before scaling, and then start scaling the selection-box while at the same time seeing where previous keys have been. While it might not solve all cases where you would like to set a custom origin, it might help in some of them.
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Harald

Harri
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kirkegor

How about editing a curve on multiple keys at the same time?
kirkegor
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Sinisa

Hey @kirkegor,
New Graph is still being worked on and improved on. The scale will be improved similarly to your example and that's already on our list.
Also copying curves and graph views is something we are working on. This stuff is pretty complex and we don't want to overcomplicate and oversaturate our Graph. Usability is our priority so considering all of your input, we are trying to improve.

You can already edit the curves on multiple keys at the same time. Sometimes is a bit tricky to select the handles as the size of different curves can vary a lot.
graph-spine.gif


Having the same spacing on all the elements is something you want to avoid, otherwise, your animation will look robotic and linear.
I would really like to see your animation and for what reason, you need to select all the keys to make the same curves.
Maybe the Favor tool can help with that.

And just to refer to anxiety, this is the graph from some "simple" old Maya scene of mine. Try to edit the multiple curves at the same time here :)
maya.png
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Sinisa

Sinisa
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kirkegor

You can already edit the curves on multiple keys at the same time. Sometimes is a bit tricky to select the handles as the size of different curves can vary a lot.
Hey @Sinisa
This is great, I just didn't find how to do it. Thanks for your help!
Having the same spacing on all the elements is something you want to avoid, otherwise, your animation will look robotic and linear.
I would really like to see your animation and for what reason, you need to select all the keys to make the same curves.
no problem, here are two simple animations in which I essentially use 2 poses and use offset to achieve an interesting movement in the end
action.gif

idle.gif

my workflow is next, I make key poses and with the help of curves I make the interpolations what I need and after that I polish the final animation.

another example is a simple loop where you need to make breathing and simple movement of the character. Then I also do 2 poses and the necessary interpolation between the keys. Then, using offset, I achieve the final result.

in any case, the new curves are an unconditional step forward and what you showed me will make my job easier. Thank you for your work, all the best
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kirkegor
  • Postovi: 5

Sinisa

Hey @kirkegor,
Glad that I was helpful!
That's some nice animation!
OK, yeah I get why you need to edit multiple curves at the same time, and you see it's not a problem. I use a similar workflow, block the main golden poses then throw in some nice breakdowns then offset the parts, and that's it :)
BTW if you used Maya you are probably familiar with the tween machine. Play a bit with our Favor tool, it's pretty similar but more advanced. It can speed up your workflow a lot. You can set up the functions to the hotkeys so making a breakdown can be done in seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUzXpwwt6hM&t=12s
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Sinisa

Sinisa
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Nate

You can already edit the curves on multiple keys at the same time. Sometimes is a bit tricky to select the handles as the size of different curves can vary a lot.
A few tips that might help: You can select a handle, then ctrl click other handles, then move them all together. If you select a handle, then box select by holding ctrl, the box select will only select other handles, not keys. If you select a handle and ctrl+a, it will select all handles in that timeline. Press it again to select all visible handles.

Also, hold alt and right click drag up/down and left/right to zoom the graph. This can help you get to the handles you want to select when otherwise everything is on top of everything else.

I second Sinisa's suggestion to check out the favor tool. It can give you great results super fast!
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Nate

Nate
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skarasuko

If it's not already in the works, I suggest an option to automatically adjust the position and horizontal zoom between the previous and next keyframe of the clicked keyframe. I think we need to have a constant snapshot of the shape of our curves as we work on them. I'm being inconvenienced because I am working on a very long animation.
skarasuko
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Nate

You can select keys and click Frame to frame only those keys. When your animation is long, you may want to turn off auto frame. It tries hard not to zoom unnecessarily, so often can be left on, but sometimes you do need finer control.
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Nate

Nate
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warmanw

Nate je napisao/la:You can select keys and click Frame to frame only those keys. When your animation is long, you may want to turn off auto frame. It tries hard not to zoom unnecessarily, so often can be left on, but sometimes you do need finer control.
:grinteeth: What else we can? :grinteeth:
mooore tips
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warmanw

Kickstarter Backer
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Nate

There's at least THREE more things you can do! :allthethings:

Let's see what else... --pack-exhaustively will make polygon texture packing try harder to pack more tightly when Power of two is unchecked. It may take a long time to complete though.
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Nate

Nate
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warmanw

I remember one my client said to me
arman --animate-exhaustively
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warmanw

Kickstarter Backer
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Erika

warmanw je napisao/la:I remember one my client said to me
arman --animate-exhaustively
And did that make you try harder to animate, but taking a longer time to complete? :coding:
/j
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Erika

Erikari
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warmanw

I just threw an error and that client can't run me again :D
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warmanw

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skarasuko

Nate je napisao/la:You can select keys and click Frame to frame only those keys. When your animation is long, you may want to turn off auto frame. It tries hard not to zoom unnecessarily, so often can be left on, but sometimes you do need finer control.
For now, I set a hotkey for "Graph Frame". However, I think the "Graph Auto Frame" functionality should extend to automatically adjusting the window to the clicked keyframe(s) in the Dopesheet. Basically, run the "Graph Frame" functionality when we highlight keyframes.

Graph Auto Frame is restricted to the beginning and end of the animation. I think this stiff functionality tends to get in the way of dealing with the fine details of the keyframes.
skarasuko
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Nate

When and how Spine applies auto frame is a bit tricky to do without it becoming annoying. You want the graph to auto frame every time you select keys? I would expect this to become annoying, causing you to lose your place.
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Nate

Nate
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skarasuko

Can you explain what you mean by losing your place in the graph? If I want to adjust the curves in a specific range within the Animation, I would box-select the keys in that range and hotkey "Graph Frame". I want that to be an automated function rather than a hotkey.

I personally do not see the benefit of auto framing the start and end of a bone's keyframes in most cases, because the reason I want to adjust the curves is between a few keyframes. If I want to select all keyframes, I can select the bone(s) again. If I need to keep my place in the graph, I would just toggle Auto off.
skarasuko
  • Postovi: 109

Nate

skarasuko je napisao/la:Can you explain what you mean by losing your place in the graph? If I want to adjust the curves in a specific range within the Animation, I would box-select the keys in that range and hotkey "Graph Frame". I want that to be an automated function rather than a hotkey.
What would happen when you want to box select keys for any other reason? It would auto frame and that may not be what you want. The auto frame zoom and pan can cause you to lose your place. It's better to frame only when you actually need it, which is generally less often than box selecting. Alt+right mouse drag is also useful.

When adjusting the curve between 2 keys, I think it's not usually necessary to make the curve take up the entire graph.
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Nate

Nate
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skarasuko

Nate je napisao/la:
skarasuko je napisao/la:Can you explain what you mean by losing your place in the graph? If I want to adjust the curves in a specific range within the Animation, I would box-select the keys in that range and hotkey "Graph Frame". I want that to be an automated function rather than a hotkey.
What would happen when you want to box select keys for any other reason? It would auto frame and that may not be what you want. The auto frame zoom and pan can cause you to lose your place. It's better to frame only when you actually need it, which is generally less often than box selecting. Alt+right mouse drag is also useful.

When adjusting the curve between 2 keys, I think it's not usually necessary to make the curve take up the entire graph.
Perhaps our workflow is pretty different to each other. So far, I can't think of anything in my long-time experience that requires me to keep my graph in place. I always intend to adjust the curves of my highlighted keyframes in the dopesheet, so I can't imagine any inconveniences of losing the previous area of the graph. I figured just toggling the "Auto" button would prevent you from losing the graph zoom, anyways. I did forget to mention, however, that I keep both the dopesheet and graph view up.

The general reason I'm stating my opinions is because the current function of the Auto Zoom might be making it inconvenient for most of us to navigate the keyframes and its curves, since it only zooms the absolute start and end of a bone's keyframe set. It may be better for us to have enough room to see the curve handles (like I said before, I prefer to have constant "snapshots" of each keyframe I work on).

I also have to add. I think it's redundant that the toggle for "Auto" is the exact same function of "Frame" while the keys are highlighted, but then it reverts to its common function. And it has another flaw I've observed, such as a bone's keyframe is set at "30-40", but the zoom includes "0-40".

Hmm.. Auto kicks in when I move a single keyframe or a handle. It should at least be "silent" during focused moments like that.

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Is it possible to revive an element of the older graph, as a toggle option? I've read mention of how we want to avoid robotic-looking animations, but specific cases may require that look. We're not always dealing with character animations. If multiple bones need to synchronize with each other, I think we do need the convenience of 3.8 Graph. Bones that have different X, Y, and Rotation directions can't have their handles selected and synchronized appropriately. Also, there are cases when it can be impossible to box select one end of handles.

Especially in cases when a bone moves to a specific Translate coordinate, it can be difficult to align both the X and Y curves to adjust the speed of the action. Attempts to modify the curves can lead to the movement being off the linear trail if that is required (like the animation sample I've uploaded).
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skarasuko
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